MS Disrupted

When Kathy Chester lost her eyesight in one eye on Mother's Day over twenty years ago, she had no idea this would be the beginning of her journey with multiple sclerosis. As a former gym owner and lifelong athlete, her first instinct was to "run it out"—pushing her body harder in hopes of defeating the disease through sheer determination. Today, that fighting spirit has evolved into something far more powerful.

Kathy joins us to share her transformation from newly diagnosed patient to empowered advocate as the host of the MS Disrupted podcast and coach for people living with chronic illnesses. Her philosophy challenges conventional thinking: instead of focusing on limitations, she asks "what am I willing to lose?"—a question that sparked her movement-focused approach to managing MS and rheumatoid arthritis.

The conversation delves into the complex emotional landscape of chronic illness, particularly the anxiety that often accompanies diagnosis and progression. All three speakers acknowledge the struggle to extend grace to themselves despite readily offering it to others. Kathy emphasizes the importance of connecting with people who truly understand this unique anxiety, noting that support from those with similar experiences provides validation that well-meaning but uninformed supporters cannot.

From practical advice about distinguishing between normal exercise soreness and disease symptoms to red flags when evaluating potential partnerships with health companies, Kathy offers invaluable insights gained through both personal experience and professional expertise. Her expanded support group acknowledges that autoimmune conditions often appear in clusters, creating spaces where people with multiple diagnoses can find comprehensive understanding.

Whether you're living with chronic illness, supporting someone who does, or simply interested in transforming how we approach health challenges, Kathy's disrupting philosophy offers a refreshing perspective. Connect with her through Instagram @msdisrupted or email msdisrupted@gmail.com to learn about her one-on-one coaching opportunities and upcoming group sessions.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Meeting Kathy Chester
• 5:18 MS Diagnosis Journey
• 10:27 The Birth of MS Disrupted
• 16:54 Anxiety and Finding Support
• 23:23 Exercise and Movement Benefits
• 31:04 Future Plans and Red Flags
• 37:25 Connecting with Kathy's Work

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Today we are welcoming Kathy Chester, the powerhouse host of the MS Disrupted podcast. Kathy lives with both multiple sclerosis and rheumatoid arthritis and she's made it her mission to disrupt the way we think about chronic illness. Through her podcast coaching and her advocacy, she's creating a space where hard conversations meet hope, resilience and, of course, real talk. Kathy is not only sharing her own journey, but also she's amplifying the voices of others in the chronic illness community, making sure no one feels alone in the fight, and that is why I'm so excited to have her here, because she fits right in. Hello Kathy, how are you? I am great. It's so good to be with you guys. She fits right in. Hello Kathy, how are you I?

Speaker 2: 0:54

am great. It's so good to be with you guys.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Thank you for inviting me, do you mind, by starting out and telling us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:01

I can absolutely do that, absolutely. I do another support group and they tell me I've been diagnosed for 60 years. I'm like wow, even longer than I was alive. So that's not true. But I've been diagnosed with MS for over 20 years. It's been so long that I forget the diagnosis. I also have epilepsy. So I found out I had epilepsy a few years ago. So my joke is I'm just packing them on my Pokemon cards so I just keep getting them with weight in the future.

Speaker 2: 1:50

So I started to get like numbing spots, things like that Didn't tell anyone. I was super athletic and I'm sure I just fold like a muscle. And then like a year later of course it's always on a holiday, right, isn't that the thing? So I found out I actually lost my eyesight in my right eye on Mother's Day. Of course, that was the one thing I couldn't ignore and I kept thinking you know, I had something in my eye, you know some gray thing, and couldn't get rid of it. And so my mother-in-law, who is a nurse, obviously she was watching me all day and she was like, ok, what's going on? I'm like you don't miss anything. So she made an appointment.

Speaker 2: 2:28

I saw the ophthalmologist the next day which we don't know. This, you know, back in the day we didn't know. Ophthalmologists actually are one of the top people who diagnose us. So he found that I had optic neuritis and after that I thought he was living in my home because he said tell me more. I'm like I don't know what you're talking about. He said any numb spots and I was like, ok, why does he know this? So I began to tell him some more and his best friend was a neurologist. So I immediately went to the hospital. They did Spinal Tap, mri, all the fun stuff, and one thing I can say now I'm grateful for is they did find like 30 lesions, hot spots, and so they could tell I had MS for years hot spots. And so they can. They could tell I had MS for years and I know so many of us, so many of our MSers, go years and years and years without a diagnosis. Mine was pretty easy to see, so I didn't have to do that.

Speaker 2: 3:22

I was fortunate Sounds so crazy now. Back then I was like fortunate what? But having it for so long, I realized how fortunate I was to get diagnosed so quickly. That was the beginning of my journey. So that was it and I really thought I could run it out. I wasn't a runner then, I was very athletic, but for sports you just do like a little bit of running to get ready for the sport you're going to do. But I had this grand idea If I ran hard enough I could run it out. That did not work, but I really thought if I kept doing, you know, hard work, I could get rid of it. But you can't do it that way. So that's a little bit about me.

Speaker 2: 4:02

My podcast is Move it or Lose it, because I really truly believe in movement. Obviously that's what I do, and so I think my grandfather had MS, and so did my aunt. So that was when they were like don't do anything, rest, rest and rest. And that just didn't make sense to me even back in the day, because we know that if we're just resting, atrophy sets in quickly, and so, even though I was a trainer, then I just really learned to train in a way that wasn't as hardcore. We knew about things like that. So I started to do things that, okay, what am I willing to lose? Well, really nothing. I don't want to lose my arms, I don't want to lose anything. So I'm going to move those things and really exercise those things to not lose that. So that was the beginning.

Speaker 1: 4:49

You juggle multiple roles. You juggle being a patient, an advocate, podcast host and a coach. So what has been the most rewarding part of wearing all these so many.

Speaker 2: 5:02

I mean, I owned a gym prior to that and I can't say that that wasn't rewarding, because it is any time for me, at least any time I'm helping someone hit a goal right, whatever that goal is, and that was very rewarding. But there was something, when COVID hits and we could we all remember that world and you could be we were all Zooming, we're all online, we're seeing people in every nation, every country, and there was something with that being able to see what we weren't getting right, what we weren't having, how all of these diseases. We weren't getting things and people weren't connecting as much as they could. And so with that, I slowly had this desire to close the gym. It didn't go over well with a lot of people. They were like, wait, you're closing the gym, and but what I really wanted to do was close that because at that time they were wanting to do a second gym and I was like no, and so I closed the gym and I really took all of that, and then I just started to learn more and started taking more on like Parkinson's and things that I really wanted to do, and that's when I decided to open MS Disrupted, and so that was the platform where I could get to people all over the world and I can't.

Speaker 2: 6:17

Sometimes it was scary. I'd have someone in India. I'd be like are you safe? It's dark, it's really dark, are you safe? But it gave me such an opportunity to work with people that couldn't walk at all, and then I don't know how you, how it gets better than having someone say they're not walking and then they're standing in the shower for the first time. Or they took a couple, and so I may not make nearly as much money, but I don't know how you put a dollar sign on that. It's the most rewarding. I still cry every time. They can do something that they couldn't do. And just what it gives to someone. You know it gives them more. It gives them more independence, and that's something we all want. Right? We're juggling these crazy, these crazy diseases that you know. We the desire to be able to have that independence and to have more energy. It's just the feeling that I get when I work with each of us. It's just, it's better than anything I could explain and that is. That's a beautiful thing. I enjoy it tremendously.

Speaker 1: 7:22

So what inspired the name? Ms Disrupted.

Speaker 2: 7:26

You know, actually disrupted years ago when I started. So I started doing the running group because I was like this is always my mantra when I work with people with any autoimmune disease is do something you haven't done right. Because, especially with men men I'm not calling you out and just saying they tend to really get on themselves because they couldn't do what they did before. Let's say they did football or basketball, they were on a, maybe they were dads on like a pickup league, and then they go to shoot the ball and they're like what. And so I always encourage both men and women do something you haven't done. Don't beat yourself up more by doing something that you did before with the guys and all of a sudden you can't do it, and us too. I mean I remember trying to play softball and I was like the ball already went Like what, or I tried to. You know it's like this. You feel worse about yourself. I don't know why I decided to pick up running. I mean I don't know why I did that. I felt like I needed to be in bubble wrap. I always fell. I still fall, but I remember the finally, the first day we would go after and get like lunch or dinner and I told them all I had on the house. They were like wait, what? Why didn't you tell it? We're supposed to run for you? I said no. So I was ready to start my personal training. So this is way back. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to give you guys three sessions. Whoever comes up with the best name. This is way before that.

Speaker 2: 8:48

I'm not like the disrupt word was kind of like the word and someone said disrupt and I'm like, ooh, I loved it because it has so many different meanings. Right, I'm gonna disrupt the way you think about this. I'm gonna disrupt the way you think you can't do this. And so I loved it in so many ways. And so immediately I didn't know it was gonna be MS disrupted at the time, but I was like, yeah, we're gonna disrupt what you think about MS. I'm going to disrupt the way you think you can't do this with MS. So it has been a word I have grown to love so much. And so I love the idea of when someone comes on and they say I can't, I cannot do this, and I will say like, let's disrupt that. You know, let's disrupt that idea that you can't. So it has been my favorite word truly.

Speaker 1: 9:36

I love that.

Speaker 2: 9:37

I love that it took me around the world to get there, but I got there.

Speaker 1: 9:41

Well, I think it's just such a great word to get you outside of the box and outside of the mindset that so many of us can dive into, because we do need to disrupt those ideas, those unhealthy thoughts, those things that take over, whether it be our anxiety or not being good enough, or I used anxiety just because I know we all deal with it. And I'm trying to assault us in this conversation, but I don't know, lenia, do you have anything to chime in on that? I would agree.

Speaker 3: 10:14

Yeah, everything you said is right. The anxiety, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:17

It's called the black hole. Like right into the black hole, like don't go, don't go, cause like once we're there, it can take a lot to get us out. You know, sometimes it just takes someone with a kind word, but other times it's like you get in there and it's like free me, free me. And it's like I feel like, unless it's one of us, nobody quite gets our anxiety the way it is. Do you guys feel like that way?

Speaker 1: 10:39

Absolutely, and I think the only people that I feel like I could talk to about it are people that feel it the same way that I feel it to the level of what I do. I mean, I know there's.

Speaker 3: 10:49

Close enough to understand it.

Speaker 1: 10:50

Yeah, yeah, I want to know that you've lived it for me to be able to feel comfortable talking to you about it, because I don't want to be made fun of.

Speaker 2: 10:58

Right, right, 100%.

Speaker 1: 11:00

And I don't know about you guys, but I almost think there's a level of anxiety that comes with your life after diagnosis. You might have not had it before, but now there's all these anxious nerves constantly of like can I keep up, Can I do the things?

Speaker 2: 11:15

Can.

Speaker 1: 11:15

I live the way I feel like is normal to me and you know, and Kathy and I were talking about this right before Linnea popped in and we got recording and and we were talking about how it's so much easier to give other people the grace that we don't want to give ourselves so easy. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:32

And that's brutal, it is. Yeah, I can take a day that might've been a little bit you know that I didn't get it like perfect and I can just be so hard on myself and I'll take my daughter to be like Mom. I'm like what she's like? Geez Grace, what did you teach us? I'm like okay, but it is like there's no grace for us, just others.

Speaker 1: 11:58

What is that for us? Just of others? What is that? So I'm sidestepping here because I know this is mostly an interview about you, but you know what I love when we have these like real raw conversations. So I'm going to ask both of you, and I'm going to start with you, kathy, think of one piece of advice you would give to a listener that is dealing with anxiety and not giving themselves grace. What would be your piece of advice?

Speaker 2: 12:23

I would say, before you slip into that black hole, that we all know about reach out to somebody that does have this, Because I think when we reach out to someone that we know loves us but they can't quite grasp that, you know they will as much because they love us and they try but reach out to those people that have it and can really be there for us and truly understand what that anxiety looks like. So I think that I've had this, and I'm sure you guys have, where they will reach out in a different way and give us some support and some answers and it feels like, yes, you get it. That would be my advice.

Speaker 3: 13:03

All right, linnea, what's yours? I mean, that was kind of mine too, because that's the way I my biggest thing. I help Also breathing techniques. Deep breathing has come to be one of my biggest tools for anxiety, but talking to others that have it makes a difference, because people that don't have anxiety do not understand anxiety. They don't understand why your brain is thinking that way. Why does your brain think like that? Well, I don't know why it thinks like that. Why does yours think where it doesn't have anxiety? So I think having surrounding finding a friend that lives it is very important, and I think that's important with any of our diagnosis. Yeah, I mean, we can relate to each other with different diagnosis, but you can't really relate unless you have the exact same one, because you guys, we understand medication the same Like, even though there's a lot of similarities that roll over from each Right. It's nice having that one person in your corner. That just gets it For sure, no matter what it is.

Speaker 1: 14:36

I agree with both of you so much, and I think my other piece of advice would be if you feel that you are a person that would benefit from it, find a support group. There's so many out there. And if you've tried one before and you're like, didn't like it, they were just a bunch of people that whined and cried or whatever, keep trying. There is a support group for everyone. If you want a certain style, ask other people, ask people. There's a lot that are virtual and, for those that are listening, the arthritis foundation offers right, multiple. I mean, they have one for gout, they have one for parents, yeah, all of everything you can think of, and I'm sure there's a lot of other non-profits that do as well. Yeah, kathy, you for one.

Speaker 1: 15:23

I I have one that I do. I mean, there's so many out there, try them all.

Speaker 2: 15:27

This week, we just changed ours. It'll be tomorrow actually is the first time that we've now grown into not just women who disrupt MS, but women who disrupt MS and chronic illness. So it's something that we really that. I talked to you know a couple of the women that helped me with it but also we brought it up to the women who are in the group and just said you know, we want to open this up to more women than just like, let's say, I'm having a really big MS issue. You know there'll be people in the group that can do that. Or if there's epilepsy, there's someone in the group with epilepsy that they may connect in a different way. You know what I mean. So I think that that will open up something that I'm really looking forward to.

Speaker 2: 16:07

So I agree with you completely, jen. I think that those support groups are so important for us to have and some are like this one is just women, only Some, I think. The other one is co-ed and I think that there's an importance for both, like the other one, I do is for newly diagnosed, and I think there's a space for that tenderness of those first few precious years where you're just like what, what do I have. What is this? I think there's such a vulnerability in that.

Speaker 1: 16:37

Yes, and I think what's great about when you open it up to more illness options, being able to join, is that autoimmune, it loves friends. There's many of us, many conditions, like the three of us sitting here, and so that, and it's a benefit, because you're not restricted to talking about just your rheumatoid arthritis or just your lupus or just your POTS or you know, and so on and so on, you can talk about all of it and you might even meet somebody that has all the same ones as you. Right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 17:09

Definitely.

Speaker 1: 17:09

It opens that door up, it's great.

Speaker 3: 17:11

So I have a question, Kathy Sure One myth or misconception about MS or RA that you'd love to disrupt for good.

Speaker 2: 17:21

To not exercise is one. To stay in a place, I would say, gosh, I talked to so many before I start an exercise routine with them that say, well, it's going to exhaust me or it's going to make me sore. And they'll call after I said those are your muscles, that's called lactic acid and they're like I haven't had that in years. I'm like don't always think that your MS or your rheumatoid that's screaming at you. It's also dehydration. You need more water because you've just used your muscles as your muscles waking up saying whoa, I haven't done this in a bit easy. And guess what the answer is we have to do it again. And they're like, oh, I'm like remember back in the day when you did this. So I would say a lot of times when you've not done it in a while, you'll wake up and think, oh, I just messed up my body with the RA and the MS and so it's just a reminder. Like, no, you did something your body hasn't done in a bit and so the lactic acid set in and let's drink some water. Even though I say it, you know, you forget in the day it's like you're going to have to up your water intake because your body just did more. So and for me I think also this may not answer, but not working in a franchise I like that I can look at you.

Speaker 2: 18:39

Or look at you and say something happened today and you're looking anxious today. So before we start this, let's take some time to breathe, anxious today. So before we start this, let's take some time to breathe. And I don't think I well I know I couldn't I couldn't have done that if I joined one of the franchise to teach and so on my own. It's difficult right To get clients on your own because it's like, no, I'm here, but it gives me that opportunity with clients to do that, and I I can say like let's do some breathing together.

Speaker 2: 19:09

And so I'm like half therapist. But I like that because what's the point? There's no brain plastic, there's nothing happening. If you've got on your mind something that happened just that morning and now all of a sudden I'm saying let's go, let's exercise, you're like I'm not even here. So I like that, that I can look at you and we're looking at each other and I can say what's going on and let's do some breathing techniques first. So I really like that part of it. I really enjoy that, that we have that time in the beginning.

Speaker 1: 19:40

Now, how do you balance the physical and the emotional toll that your illnesses demand, as you're doing your advocacy, your podcasting, all the things? Well, I can say, this.

Speaker 2: 19:52

My kids were like when you got sick it kind of made you come down from here from like Tigger to like normal. So I don't know, I think I was so ADHD my whole life that it was like you're kind of normal, and I think it made me a better mom when they were little, because they were like we caught you, we can like sit with you, and I was like, wow, was I that hyper? So I think it just made me calm down and like, look at things different. If I could do everything I wanted, I would never be still so there's so many things I still want to do. I mean I love talking at schools, I love talking with. There's so many things in my life that I can talk about. I'm in the middle of writing a book slowly, and so there's just so many things that I enjoy doing that I don't ever feel really taxed by it, as long as I take those little spaces in the day where I can then breathe, and I can then take those little like 10, 15 minute times where I can just take for me, then be with my golden retriever, be in the sunlight. You know things like that that give me that, you know, fresh feeling that I can then come on with my clients and stuff and and feel better and feel like, okay, I'm ready to see you honestly, because I have been with so many.

Speaker 2: 21:11

I am with highly functional people that I can do different things with that. I can do kind of this stuff that I work out. And then I'm with people that are in a chair that I can get. I think it helps me be really creative, you know, so I can be okay, this person's in their bed. So it helps me just be very creative in what I think I have to do, which I think for me is really good because you're never bored with it. It's like, oh, okay, what are we going to do then? What are some things I can do to challenge you today? So I think that always keeps me going. I can't get bored with it because it's okay, now I've got lines. Okay, what am I going to do with this patient? Okay, now I've got this today, all right, let's get creative with this. So I'd love that. That my brain I can never my brain doesn't get lazy, I guess, which is nice.

Speaker 1: 22:13

I have a random question, and once again it's for all three of us, and so I will start with you, Kathy. There's one thing that I feel like is a huge problem for me and I and I have a feeling it is for both of you. Do you feel like you're hoarse all the time?

Speaker 2: 22:31

Yeah, I thought from the beginning when I was training that I was just yelling too much Because I was a cheerleader. I know People are always like you're kidding and I thought it was that. But I didn't realize that it's the MS voice, that my voice was getting more MS voice. So I thought if I don't do well on this, I could always do like sex therapist or I could do sex talk on the phone. If I don't make it career wise Now we have to mark this rated R. But I was like, going through different career choices, I'm like, well, it'd be really nerdy because I don't know how to do that. I'd be like, well, hi, but it'd be really nerdy. Yeah, my voice got so deep so fast as a trainer and now I find that guys are like your voice is so sexy. I'm like what? Yeah, it's been raspy like this for the last 15 years.

Speaker 1: 23:18

Okay, so I'm not alone. And if you ever decide to come, you know, have your own like 1-800 number or something. Yeah, I'll let you know With one of our, our co-hosts, allie, because Allie DiGiacomo, that's like her dream and she could totally teach you how to talk.

Speaker 2: 23:34

Okay, because I would need a lot of lessons on that.

Speaker 1: 23:38

I mean, she's got it down One time she did an introduction for the podcast.

Speaker 2: 23:43

Really, and I was like where's this one? Oh, I got to learn this. I got to learn this.

Speaker 3: 23:49

You need to send her that episode. Yeah, I gotta learn this.

Speaker 1: 23:53

Because, I kid you not, she was like hello listeners.

Speaker 2: 23:57

I gotta learn this.

Speaker 1: 23:59

Oh, you know, it's like the.

Speaker 3: 24:01

DJ back in the 90s. That's so, because that's always my dream, the. Dj that had the. That's the voice that I heard was yeah, that's funny.

Speaker 2: 24:12

Yeah, that was my other dream being a DJ that had the. That's. The voice that I heard was yeah, that's funny.

Speaker 1: 24:13

Yeah, that was my other dream being a DJ we just have to lower our voice an octave and talk slower and really grab their attention as you're speaking, you could read a page you could okay so same question for you, linea. Do you feel like you've gotten raspy?

Speaker 3: 24:34

yes, yes, and some days are more than others. Like if I'm flaring more it seems worse. Sometimes I will sound like I've smoked a pack of cigarette and I don't smoke cigarette, like so, but it sounds. It gets real, like right now it's kind of, but sometimes I feel swollen right in here, which we've got joints everywhere, so why wouldn't I have you know? So I just, I'm like it's just RA.

Speaker 2: 25:01

I just blame it on RA. It's RA yeah, I'm like RA on us. Whatever it is, it is Whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 25:06

Yeah, exactly Cause I used to feel like I was the weird one, the only person out there, and sometimes I feel like I'm swallowing marbles, but there's nothing wrong with me. Like if you were to look at my tonsils, they look fine, but it's like I feel swollen, I feel gross and marbled and I feel like I'm constantly carrying some kind of beverage around.

Speaker 3: 25:28

Well, and I think, how many medicines do we take that dry our mouths out?

Speaker 2: 25:32

I feel like I just smoked like a whole joint and I don't do this. I'm like, why am I so dry?

Speaker 3: 25:39

But yeah, our lovely medicines, I can't say I don't do that, because I do do that, but I am in Arizona. Well, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:46

Well then.

Speaker 1: 25:48

But you know, I think this is my call out to listeners to remember. I mean, I've heard people complain about podcasters in the past. I can't think of a good one at the moment, but I think it was a guest on. It wasn't Crime Junkie, it was shoot. I can't think of it. If I remember the podcast, I'll let you know. But there was a guest that was on a podcast and they did like a whole season with her and people were writing and complaining about this woman's voice and all I could think of after that is, oh my gosh, like please don't ever write to me and complain about how I sound. Please don't, because I always feel like my voice sounds like it's hard to get out. My husband says I'm too quiet and sometimes I'm like it, just it, just. It's all I can do to talk as loud as.

Speaker 1: 26:32

I'm talking now.

Speaker 3: 26:33

I'm not a yell.

Speaker 1: 26:34

I have no voice.

Speaker 3: 26:37

You want to yell, you know you want to yell so they can hear you, but it's like you can't get it. You can't get your voice louder. I do have moments where it's like, or it will squeak out yeah, so, so listeners, but it's usually fatigue.

Speaker 1: 26:50

Give us grace. Yeah, be understanding and do not write to any of us to complain about our voices. We're doing the best we can.

Speaker 2: 26:58

We can't help it, it is what it is.

Speaker 3: 27:00

Unless you like our voices, then you can yeah yeah, for sure you like our voices, please we're always open for positive yeah, yes yes, okay, so now that I sidestepped, I'm going to go back, and so what's next?

Speaker 1: 27:15

We're looking ahead. What's exciting things that are ahead for MS Disrupted and your advocacy work, like? What are big things or goals you have ahead of you?

Speaker 2: 27:24

I'm looking more like at some different things. Like I'm looking more at the companies that I work with, like kind of going to. So there's been like some opportunities. I was going to go take a position I can't say a lot about it, but it had some red flags I'd be moving, but I decided it just had too many red flags for it and I would have loved it. It was kind of right up my alley to be working with the people that I work with. So I'm kind of looking at things like that. Or I could kind of like keep my MS disrupted but kind of join in with like a different company. So I'm kind of looking at something more like that.

Speaker 2: 27:57

Obviously, you know that I'm going through a divorce and that's been so much fun. When I feel healed from that, I want to work with a lot of patients that have been in a situation where they have had a caregiver we know this happens have had a caregiver that is abusive. They need that and so when I feel healed from that, I want to do more advocacy in that, and so never did. I think that would be me, because I'm feeling like I am so tough. I got this but we never know, we never know what is going to happen in our lives, and so I want to work with more patients who've had that where I'm promoting a specific company that I really do like and so I take that very serious when a company comes to me and asks me to promote them Really. There's the companies I won't do and companies that I do really believe in, that I will do and so just kind of going in a direction I never saw coming but as that has opened up, going with a company maybe that I will do, and so just kind of going in a direction I never saw coming, but as that has opened up, going with a company maybe that I really do like and working with them. So we'll see how that.

Speaker 2: 29:22

I've tried to do a lot of different things, trying to do like you know where I think like for sure this is going to happen, doing like some Zoom things and getting a lot of people together. For some reason that has not worked, that just doesn't. I'm like this will for sure work and it just doesn't seem to come together. So we'll see if it may be under the umbrella of one of the MS things like MSAA, but I haven't had a lot of luck with that. So we'll see. We'll see how that goes. So anybody listening, help me out with that one.

Speaker 2: 29:54

I'd love to do that to get people together. You know to do. I think there's a special thing with that. There's the camaraderie, there's the I think there's when you've got a bunch of people on it. There's that. You've got that. The word's not in my head right now, but you've got that, not just the camaraderie, but you have that person. You feel like you've got to get on it right. Not just the camaraderie, but you have that person. You feel like you've got to get on it right. So it's like that accountability that's a word. So I think that is because they'll be looking like I didn't see her, I didn't see him on the you know, on the Zoom today to do our workout, and so I really liked that idea of it.

Speaker 2: 30:27

It's just getting it moving is really tough. So yeah, so I've tried to do it with, like different Facebook groups, and what I find a lot in the autoimmune community is, if I will start one, you'll see there's a lot of competitiveness with it. When someone starts something and you're like, why are we competing? We're all doing this to help people. So I see that a lot where I will say like a very inexpensive price and then you'll have someone come up and say it is, you know, free, and where people don't understand they are getting paid by, like the MS Society or the MSAA or something like that. The people like we wouldn't know that and so they can do it for like $19 because they're getting paid by you know another company.

Speaker 2: 31:14

It's very hard to get into the world of autoimmune world because they don't like to pay for things like that, for an exercise program. So it's very tricky. So there's a lot of good things when you're going on your own, but there's also a lot of tricky things. So it does take a lot of you have to really go into, like you guys and go into a lot of the friends that you have and say help me promote this. So if I do, I'll be coming to you and say help me promote this. So that's something I really want to go into, probably in October. So I'll be probably promoting that more. I'm just really wanting to get that group together because I think that's a magic sauce when you have people that are with you on it. So that definitely looking for more companies that are with me, that I have the same kind of heart with that I have the same, that I know they're really working to help us and that's a big thing that I truly believe in.

Speaker 3: 32:10

What are some red flags with companies that have slipped into your DMs?

Speaker 2: 32:14

You won't see them. Yeah, you won't see them in my. You'll see them all of a sudden.

Speaker 3: 32:20

What are your, what are their? What do? They do to raise these flags for you.

Speaker 2: 32:24

I would say yeah, I would say definitely that they, that their care is not really for us, it's for making money. When I pick up on that, then I'm like goodbye. When I say something like wait a minute, this would not be safe and their biggest, it doesn't matter, they're still going to keep going, even though I say they would get hurt doing this. But they've asked me to be the person advocate and I'm like you're not caring, you're caring about the money that you're making. I would also say that when they go, when even I've said things like this physical there, but this person doesn't have anything we have, so they don't really understand what we're going through, but you have them on and they're continuing to say things that have nothing to do with what we have, those are some red flags.

Speaker 2: 33:15

I would say. If it's, if it's a run by a lot of men men don't get mad at me, but they don't really care about a female's perspective Then I'm like OK, those are some red flags, because a lot of us women have these diseases. So I sometimes get, if I'm on a call and I'm getting kind of shut down, then I'm like how many of us, how many women, have these things and how many will get shut down with our opinions. Those are big red flags. I would say the costs not responding to that. And I want to know too, if I have a client or if I'm saying money back that it absolutely is, you're able to send that back and you're getting your money back guaranteed. And then, in that I don't want to say that to clients, or on a video I'm doing and then I'm getting, I'm getting told that I never got it, I never got any money back. So those would be red flags. If that makes sense, yep, makes, perfect, yeah, and I think another example for red flags, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 34:12

Yep Makes perfect. Yeah, and I think another example for red flags especially on your social media, if you've got people dropping into your DMs that are, oh my gosh especially sometimes it shows up as like where you have to go. Look at the people that have requested to message you and there are things that are like jewelries. We want to send you jewelries.

Speaker 2: 34:31

Yes.

Speaker 1: 34:32

Yeah, Anything that looks copy and paste and they're trying to give you jewelry or t-shirts and want you to be an ambassador.

Speaker 2: 34:40

they send those to everyone they do. I'm like I've done that and honestly, being an ambassador is not something I'm interested in, honestly. You know I will help support a company that helps us and I'll work with them, but being an ambassador I'm like no, thank you, I'm too old for that now I don't want to do that. Thank you, no, thanks.

Speaker 3: 35:04

Yeah, you can go ahead. Okay, so how can listeners support your mission and connect with your work?

Speaker 1: 35:10

I know you're in Arizona.

Speaker 3: 35:14

If people don't know that you're in Michigan you're in Michigan? Okay, I'm in Michigan.

Speaker 2: 35:18

No, I wish. No, I'm in Michigan where the weather changes every day. I would say definitely emailing me at msdisrupted, at gmailcom, but anything. I'm on Instagram, at msdisrupted. I would say that I get a lot of or messaging on Messenger. People message me a lot on there and the website is kind of being a jerk right now, but it should be fine. It's at MSDisruptedcom and I would say emailing me with like, let me know if you're interested in being on a Zoom, like a Zoom with like many people.

Speaker 2: 35:50

I want to do that or my one-on-ones. I love doing one-on-ones with people and I try to be very fair because you know we're not I don't know if you ladies know this we're not loaded. Some are, but all the money we pay out. So I really try to be fair with the one-on-ones and try to keep prices down very low compared to what I did as a trainer you know in the real world back then. So try to keep it really low that I can help you without breaking your bank.

Speaker 2: 36:19

So that's probably my favorite is the one-on-one where I can really stay with you and really watch. And even on Zoom, it's amazing how I can see a foot turn the wrong way and how they set up their little home gyms and like your fans on, so always making sure that the fans on that you're cool, they've got water and all that stuff. But I do love that and I have openings, so sign up. I've got openings for my one-on-one clients, so that for sure. So email me, let me know that you're interested, and then I really like to talk when I want. So I'll just say I'll just give them my number and say just let's talk about what you need so I can tailor, make the what we do the course for you. So yeah, I'm interested. I'm. You're going to see some stuff in the fall of doing the course Zoom, so that a lot of people can be in it, which I really, really like doing that.

Speaker 3: 37:09

And Jen. You'll have all her links to her social media and website, correct doing that and Jen, you'll have all her links to her social media and website correct. Yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 37:21

Okay, so you can. Listeners can find you at the links on the podcast or on Instagram.

Speaker 2: 37:24

Yes, once I get her document back, I will have all the all the Okay, and definitely I love the idea of joining you and doing. I love doing that. I love collaborating. I always say that you know when you're doing on your own, that competition is just going to is a failure, but collaborating is a win for everybody. I just think there's nothing better for us than collaborating, and so I think it's we talked about it before, jen I love the idea of collaborating. I love looking at your stuff. I think it's beautiful and I'll always compliment that. The idea of looking at your stuff. I think it's beautiful and I'll always compliment that. The idea of looking at your stuff and like, why aren't we doing that? I'm jealous of that. What, what, like that's so silly. I look at it and I tell everybody look, I love that.

Speaker 2: 38:01

Thank you, thank you Tinkerbell yeah. I love it. We love her for it. Yeah, I mean, that's you make this look pretty. Yeah, I mean, I absolutely adore it. So it's yeah, I can't wait. I would love to do um, where we do a, where we do like a support thing together. I would love that.

Speaker 1: 38:21

That'd be wonderful. Yeah, well, listeners, it's been great. I hope that you found some benefits out of this conversation today and until next time, no-transcript.