Mind Over Misery Part 2

What happens when chronic pain intersects with mental health? Our panel of chronic illness warriors tackles this question head-on, revealing the emotional landscape behind physical suffering and the mindset shifts that transformed their journeys.

Meet Steve, living with rare and painful arachnoiditis, who found renewed purpose as an advocate after his body began failing him. Listen to Stasia's powerful reframing of productivity – "sometimes just sitting and listening to birds is productive" – challenging our cultural obsession with constant activity. Rick shares his structured approach to resilience despite debilitating knee pain, while Lisa reminds us that emotional resilience ultimately comes down to choice in the face of uncontrollable circumstances.

Together, they explore how chronic illness fundamentally reshapes self-worth, relationships, and identity. You'll hear candid admissions about wallowing (it's okay sometimes!), grief as necessary processing rather than pain itself, and the transformative power of finding purpose amid suffering. Their practical wisdom includes removing "I'm fine" from your vocabulary, setting time limits on pity parties, and preparing mentally for others' reactions to your invisible battles.

This conversation goes beyond typical chronic illness discussions, diving into the psychological strategies that help warriors rise above their conditions. Whether managing pain yourself or supporting someone who does, you'll gain insight into the delicate balance between acknowledging suffering and choosing engagement with life despite limitations.

Grab a cozy drink and join us for an honest, heartfelt exploration of how the mind can triumph over misery – not by denying pain, but by transcending it through purpose, community, and intentional mindset shifts.

Steve Lovelace:

https://www.instagram.com/arachnoiditis_unfiltered?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

Rick Cram:

https://www.instagram.com/rickcram?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

Lisa Norris:

https://www.instagram.com/autoimmunewarriorinfo?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_shee

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Introductions
• 3:45 Fictional Illness Buddies Icebreaker
• 6:41 Chronic Illness and Self-Worth
• 15:22 Navigating Others' Reactions to Pain
• 23:32 Emotional Resilience Through Adversity
• 33:33 Life-Changing Mindset Shifts
• 39:43 Closing Thoughts and Appreciation

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome back to my Spoonie Sisters Podcast, and today I have well another great group. We are coming back for part two of Mind Over Misery. So today we're diving into an emotional side of chronic illness, the mental health struggles we don't always talk about and the resilience it takes to keep going. Grab your favorite cozy drink and join our panel as we unpack grief, growth and the mindset shifts that help us rise above the misery. Hello, everyone, hello.

Speaker 1: 0:42

Hi I am going to ask each of you, one by one, say your name, what your illness is and if there's any fun fact you want to share.

Speaker 3: 0:52

My name is Steve Lovelace. My disease is called arachnoiditis, sometimes called adhesive arachnoiditis. It's a rare chronic disorder, that is, chronic inflammation of the arachnoid tissue that's around the spinal cord. It's one of the most painful. There's no cure for it, all pills. Sorry about that. A fun fact about me is that I was the second disabled athlete, first with a spinal cord injury, to have ever completed a triathlon. It made me a pioneer of a paralytic sport paratriathlon.

Speaker 1: 1:25

And you are so awesome to watch. By the way, I'm Stasha.

Speaker 2: 1:46

Parker Tenacious in Me online. I have rheumatoid arthritis and a fun to 20 years now, or over 20 years now, so it has taken mind over misery to get there and I like to do art and make jewelry and create anything I can to take my mind out of this world and into a different world.

Speaker 1: 2:12

I love that, and also she has some really cool glasses, so you need to see the video version of this and find out where to get them Amazon.

Speaker 5: 2:21

Hi everybody, I'm Rick Cram and after a football injury, the last game of my high school career took an injury to my left knee. Surgery number seven in 2019 was a partial revision of a total knee replacement from about 20 years before, and it's actually left my knee in a state of trauma. I deal with acute blasts of pain, sometimes dozens of times a day. When it gets really bad, it can be a dozen or so an hour and there's still no true diagnosis or solution just yet. But I'm never giving up hope.

Speaker 5: 2:54

And one fun fact I'll share with you professionally, one of the things I've done, along with being a marketing executive, has been a game show host for corporate events or consumer events, and I've had the honor of. James Earl Jones was a co-host of mine for a big show we did with what was then Bell Atlantic Mobile. My last big show was the Boston Bruins had me host their game show on the floor of the Boston Garden with the Bruins players as the game show contestants, in front of 5,000 of their an audience of 5,000, their season ticket holders, and I miss being able to host game shows like that.

Speaker 1: 3:31

I could definitely see that, and I can even see you as like a radio personality. You just have one of those kind of voices that is easy to listen to. To kick off, we are going to start with an icebreaker question, because, you know me, I love icebreakers. It loosens us all up. Which fictional character do you think would make an amazing chronic illness buddy, and which one would absolutely not get it?

Speaker 3: 3:57

I'm gonna go with stitch the lilo and stitch, just because the high energy would be such great distraction. And that's what we look for to basically minimize from the pain, you know. And what was the second one which one wouldn't?

Speaker 1: 4:12

Yeah, which one would absolutely not get it.

Speaker 3: 4:15

Howdy doody, it's too likable.

Speaker 1: 4:18

Oh, those are good choices. Okay, I don't know how we're going to beat this.

Speaker 4: 4:21

My gosh, I'm going to take Ma Angles as my helpful fictional character, cause she can just take care of everything. It doesn't matter what's wrong with you. Right, she's got you and the one who absolutely would not get it, I'm drawing a total blank. I guess Shaggy from Scooby-Doo and the gang. He didn't get much. I mean, he wants to snack and that's about it right he's too busy eating.

Speaker 2: 4:51

I think my fictional character would be Snoopy, because Snoopy rises with everything and always has a great answer and is your best friend and there for everything right. And I think the person or the character that wouldn't get it is Fred Flintstone, because he was just like from the Stone Age he didn't get much right, he was right out of the cave.

Speaker 1: 5:17

That's true.

Speaker 3: 5:18

I think Barnes would probably be even better though.

Speaker 5: 5:23

Popeye. I grew up watching the original Popeye cartoon in the 60s and the idea, the reason why, is because Popeye was a person of action, a man of action, he would reach for that can of spinach, open it up and then he got strength from that, enough strength to solve whatever the challenge is. And the analogy with that is that we are challenged with what are those actions that we can take to be resilient and I don't think I've maybe watched more than a few seconds of Beavis or Butthead, but I don't think either one of you would get it.

Speaker 1: 6:01

That's a really good one. My fictional buddy there would be Ariel, because I don't feel like she wants to let anything stop her. She wants to be in the water, she wants to be on the land, she wants to do it all water. She wants to be on the land, she wants to do it all. And so I need somebody that wants to do it all as my buddy. Now, the person that doesn't get it and I would want to not ever be stuck with would be Garfield. He's kind of a negative Ned right, and I don't need that. I don't need that because on a bad pain day, you don't need somebody dragging you down. Okay, so now that we have kind of gone on with that, let's dive into our really serious questions. So the first one is has chronic illness changed the way you view your self-worth, your productivity or even your rest, and how have you redefined success for yourself?

Speaker 3: 6:51

It has definitely affected my self-worth. Success for yourself. It has definitely affected my self-worth. I used to be a salesman and my identity was all about the numbers game and I got into sales by way of being an x-ray tech. I got into being an x-ray tech because of my accident. I wanted to give back to the community, to the health system, and not being able to work is very difficult because we put a lot of self-worth on that Kind of turn it around nowadays is that you know I'm an advocate for my disease.

Speaker 3: 7:18

I'm trying hard to be the face of the disease. We need one. We need a Michael J Fox, like Parkinson's has. I've got a great story made sports history and part of me telling my story and how we got together. Jenny is sharing my story with you guys and so I'm doing that more now and again, starting the podcast there's not a podcast that focuses on this disease and we're going to bring all kinds of chronic pain people into the conversation as we go. But first we're going to focus on arachnoiditis because it's so there's so little known about it and we want to get the word out there.

Speaker 1: 7:51

And I think that's great. I think that's great, I think the more people that we get sharing their knowledge in the community.

Speaker 4: 7:59

It's such a good thing and we need more of that. Yeah, my chronic illness definitely forced me to change my perspective on what productivity even is and how that defines self-worth. Before I became sick, I was very focused on my ability, my physical ability, how I could get anything done that I had interest in figuring out how to do. I've always been the sort of person who would look at something that somebody else had done and immediately think how I might be able to do that and start to investigate that and go down that avenue. So when I started to run into physical limitations that my body was imposing, that was a really foreign idea to me.

Speaker 4: 8:41

I also grew up in a community where hard work is really accentuated Work ethic and what you get done in a day has a lot to do with how your value is seen in the community. Coming to terms with that, figuring out how self-worth, isn't about how much you get done, but who you are, and it doesn't change from day to day. It's very constant and finding other ways to look at ways to consider productivity sometimes just sitting and listening to the birds is a very productive thing to do.

Speaker 1: 9:16

And that's true. I think we're in the day and age now where we want to be busy, busy, busy. Our hands need to be busy, we need to be listening to something, doing something, watching something. And I actually caught myself flying to Hawaii. Our flights are five and a half hours from here.

Speaker 1: 9:32

My mother-in-law never hooked up her Wi-Fi to the plane so she couldn't text any of us. We were texting each other on the flight. She wasn't getting our texts, she couldn't play a game, she couldn't watch a movie, she didn't take earbuds. And so we got there and I'm like, how did you survive this flight? And I felt the silliness coming out of me because I'm like what is wrong with relaxing, what's wrong with resting? That's okay, but our mind is so focused on being busy, busy, busy all the time that it's like we can't seem to handle the quiet and the rest. And so I think that's a good point that you brought up, that it's okay to sit there and listen to the birds and enjoy the quiet. I don't know if I can handle five and a half hours, but Just bring a good book, okay, okay.

Speaker 1: 10:26

Yeah, Well, you know I took a book with me, but I was afraid I'd fall asleep if I read.

Speaker 2: 10:31

So I didn't. I'm turning to nature, which I'm a huge nature lover, taking those walks, looking at flowers and trees, listening to the birds and seeing butterflies, and really that's a win. You know, feeling healthy and having energy and staying healthy and investing in our health is productivity when you have an autoimmune or a chronic illness.

Speaker 5: 10:59

Well, part of success for me is keeping this whole issue up at the surface. I found myself when I was going through those few years with surgeries four, five and six that I was starting to think of myself as someone in pain. It was part of who I am and since becoming a caregiver and a resilience coach, I've heard so many people with different life experiences, whether they've lost a job for a resilience coach. I've heard so many people with different life experiences, whether they've lost a job, for example, or have other challenges. It's not uncommon for me to hear them say I don't know who I am anymore and I don't know what to do about it, and so part of the plan to be your best approach helps work through that.

Speaker 5: 11:38

But keeping it up to the surface, especially during these years since the last surgery and all of the pain, I'm hyper intentional about it. You've probably heard me use that term before. I'm a lion of intentionality in so many different ways, including being aware of really listening to my thoughts, listening to the words that I'm choosing. Lately I can't recall if I shared this with you during our last conversation, but last month I had a breakthrough and it was the healing of the trauma that I experienced from the injury in the first three surgeries back in my teens and part of addressing it, the work that I've done over the past year, and a half on this.

Speaker 5: 12:16

One of the seven key things I've done was to elevate my sense of self-worth. I was thinking through my past, speaking to my younger self and identifying those facets of me, certain experiences and certain dynamics within me that made a huge difference to resolve, and I don't know how else to put it but to say I elevated my self-worth and I'm hoping that those things, those seven things, I can use to try to heal the trauma from surgeries four, five and six and everything I experienced. For anyone listening and this is part of the one of the domains of thriving from plan to be invested. The first one is for prepare and being prepared. For example, I wasn't prepared for what I experienced early on in my teens, but I found out through all of these years that it's never too late to become able, and part of becoming able is re-anchoring in who you are.

Speaker 5: 13:11

Sometimes there are simply three questions that people will have in discussion with me in a group or one-on-one what about you is true, what about you is good and what about you is unchangeable, especially when we're dealing with such challenges like we are, when we're rethinking about and identifying those three attributes, including the parts of us that are unchangeable. I've seen people have this conversation, go through those three questions and you can see them change in their posture. They'll even say thank you, I know who I am and I have that greater sense of value. It is something that can be turned around fairly quickly and reinforced by repeating that and creating a new pattern of thought.

Speaker 1: 14:26

That's a really good point, because sometimes we don't think much about the patterns of thoughts that we have and how detrimental those can be.

Speaker 3: 14:34

Mine's pretty visible. I know you know where the disease is. Nobody can see it, but it's taken a toll on me. I've also got something called cholera-aquana syndrome and the combination are both slowly paralyzing me below the weight. So it's pretty visible when you see me walk in and I use my forearm crutches. Yeah, the mental and emotional toll. I'm a pretty resilient, always very positive. I laugh a lot, even when I'm in the worst pain. I laugh. Some people don't get'm in the worst pain, I laugh, some people don't get it, but that's just my nature. I think the thing that I struggle with the most is how, around me, more than it affects me, I see marriages fail with this disease. I heard of two last week in one of my Facebook groups young mothers and so I worry more about everybody else around me than I do about myself, because I'm so resilient, I'm so positive that I can really kind of force through it. But to see families fail as a result of, you know, having something like this is really very, very hard.

Speaker 4: 15:39

I come from a perspective that we never know what anybody is dealing with, and so it isn't up to other people to figure out what my situation is, where I might need help, what I'm struggling with. So I try to communicate openly and honestly about how I'm coping. If I'm having a bad day, I try to honestly tell people that I'm not having a great day. I've tried to remove the word fine from my vocabulary, because what even is fine? And I find that the more I communicate with people around me, the more that's what they've come to expect from me. Most of my friends will tell you that they talk to me. When they want to know the honest answer, they'll come and ask me.

Speaker 1: 16:23

A prime example is I met up with you in Seattle. Was it last month? Yeah, last month. Sometimes, even when you can't tell, tell when it's not visible, there's something as simple as we slow down our walking, and it was quite interesting to see a group of us together that all had I think all of us had Aria, except for one person. She had lupus, and everyone was just going along, going along, and I kept slowing down and turning around because I knew I just knew that you were having a tougher time. I remember what it's like to be that person. You don't want to be the person drawing attention and saying, hey, I can't keep up, but at the same time, hey, I can't keep up, right, yeah, so you don't always want to be the person opening up your mouth, but I think, if anything, what life has taught most of us is to slow down and turn around and look for the person behind you.

Speaker 4: 17:11

Absolutely. Another thing that it's made me do is remove that idea of fake it from my exit. I don't fake anything. There's no point in pretending that I'm feeling well enough to go do the thing if I'm going to struggle through it. I'm way better off when I tell the person that I'm hanging around with hey, I need to sit down, take a little minute so that I can enjoy the rest of this with you.

Speaker 1: 17:36

If we try to fake it until we make it, we might not make it Exactly, we might not make it to the next destination. It's better that we are honest and say, hey, I might have to sit this one out, and that's okay. Sometimes we have to sit something out. I've done it. I've gotten pushed around in the zoo in a wheelchair because I couldn't keep up, and so the family wanted to help out, and that's okay.

Speaker 2: 17:59

I really try to prepare. Rest or certain occasions I try to prepare for if it's going to be a long weekend. But sometimes you just don't know. You know you might have a flare out of the blue the weather, this, that. So I'm good at communicating to my friends or spouse where I'm at zero to 10, how many spoons are in the drawer, you know so. And if it's something I need to go slower or walk slower than everybody else, you know they usually can figure that out, knowing me. I really do try to prepare, and as best as I can for upcoming events. But, like, like we all know, it's just there's no telling. Anything can happen at any time. Jen, I know we talked about your vacation. It was beautiful but there were days that weren't great. But you still love your vacation and I've been there. I love my vacations or time off or special events. But sometimes I have to push through. Sometimes because it's where I want to be. I have some extra reserve and so I push the push through button.

Speaker 1: 19:09

And it's okay if we have to go to bed early. I was the first one to hit my head on the pillow every night, and it's okay.

Speaker 5: 19:15

Loaded question and an excellent question, because they're uh, this is a loaded topic and there was actually a New York Times piece on Christmas Eve in 2023 that the headline of this essay was we're talking about pain. All wrong, it had to do with the opioid crisis, but it was larger than that, regarding the ways people react to other people in pain, and I've seen a number of reactions, even a range of reactions, of the people who love me, some of whom don't know what to say, or they say nothing at all, don't react at all, or they'll say, if I say, well, how you doing? They ask and I say I'm okay, and they tell me how. I should have answered the question with a really enthusiastic, for example, and this has been one of the challenging things over the past several years, and one of the things, just as you were using the word prepare. The idea of one of the things I've done is become more prepared mentally in a few ways One, thinking ahead of what I might say in certain circumstances to help them and help myself move through what might be a difficult, stressful exchange or dynamic, including being prepared to not give a damn. I care a whole lot less in a really healthy way what other people say or don't say. Sometimes I'll hear or see something that is an issue regarding this topic and I'll say, well, that's what grace is for, and I'll extend them grace. Sometimes I'll think, well, there's this wonderful quote by Eleanor Roosevelt what someone else thinks of me is none of my business. It's a dynamic that is sort of flows. There's an ebb and flow to it. Sometimes, and even as I'm listening to each of you share your answers and thoughts, I've been thinking of a dozen different things that have happened over the past several years people walking ahead of me and people saying the wrong thing, and it's part of the journey. But I think I'll conclude with this one thought.

Speaker 5: 21:22

You know the three steps of resilience is one part of plan to be your best. I practice using the three steps to share my answers to a number of questions, including those people when they ask how I am. It's not going to be this kind of exchange. Where it's that pro forma, I'm fine, thanks. How are you response? But when they're asking and really meaning it, how are you really? Those three steps are, I'll share with them, I'll tune in. Here's what I'm experiencing. Move to the second step plan. Here's what I'm doing about it. And then the third step is be your best, and here are the actions I'm taking that helped me through this, and it's sort of a structured way to help me be my best, to even share my resilience with others, just as you, steve.

Speaker 5: 22:08

You're quick to say how resilient you are and that's worth not only holding on to, but it's worth saying. I went to see a client this morning and it always creates for a very active day like this. But just as pain happens in the moment, resilience happens in the moment. This is one of the ways in which I've prepared for something like this. But just as pain happens in the moment, resilience happens in the moment. This is one of the ways in which I've prepared for something like this. It's been very difficult for me to be in pain publicly, because I'm the guy who used to be that game show host that always brought joy and light and life to places. But I suppose, steve, if I may, in my own way, this is how I'm saying resilience happens in the moment and I like to model that for us all and for myself.

Speaker 1: 22:51

I think it's a good example of how we can live in both worlds all at the same time. I know you guys are going to love this one. What does emotional resilience mean to you and how has it evolved throughout your journey?

Speaker 3: 23:04

That's a good one. I mean to me, my emotional resilience. It's been there since I was a kid. I've been.

Speaker 3: 23:12

I was abused and abandoned by my father when I was four. My mom nearly died when I was just a young kid and I had to go live with my grandparents, so I suffered abandonment issues. It wasn't until I was 14 that I grew up around my grandfather. I got shipped off. I was kind of a problem child and I got shipped off and I finally had a male influence and that made all the difference in the world to me. It strengthened me internally and it's given me that resilience to be able to get through anything.

Speaker 3: 23:40

And I really think that the biggest key about being resilient is that it strengthens everybody around you. When you're strong and you're suffering like we do, you know I everybody that knows me knows my story. They're amazed at everything that I do. They'll never feel the pain that I'm in. I don't want them to feel the pain that I'm in, but I want to show them that life goes on, regardless of the diagnosis. Right, you have to be stronger than your diagnosis, but first you have to accept it and you have to say this is life, this is the new norm and you know what. You can be negative or you can be positive. It's so easy to find negativity, but it's hard to find positivity, and I choose positivity every day.

Speaker 1: 24:19

You're blowing me away with your answers today and leaving me kind of speechless, so forgive me.

Speaker 4: 24:25

For me, emotional resilience is just the ability to continue living life while having and being in the emotional state that is appropriate for the moment. Sometimes life is really hard, especially when you have hard things to deal with. Life throws death and grief and loss in your path, along with whatever else you might be coping with from day to day. Once upon a time I was somebody who would try to run away from that, try to tuck it away. I don't have time to process that. I'm just not going to feel those feelings, put them on the back burner and move on. And I found that over and over again that just led to meltdowns and explosions.

Speaker 1: 25:08

And.

Speaker 4: 25:08

I learned to stand in my emotions. Be sad when I'm sad, be happy when I'm happy. Don't try to force it to be what it's not, but ask yourself what is this? Why is this sadness here? For me, sometimes the sadness, often the sadness is just about something you really love. So if you can recognize that you're sad because something you love is gone and you can celebrate that you ever had that to begin with, you can start to not so much control your emotions but reframe the way that you deal with the fact that emotion is a beautiful part of your existence in the world.

Speaker 2: 25:46

So let's go over the question again.

Speaker 1: 25:48

Okay, what does emotional resilience mean to you and how has it evolved throughout your journey?

Speaker 2: 25:55

I feel for me, emotional resilience has been a choice along the way here in my healing or learning to live with an autoimmune.

Speaker 2: 26:06

I mean, even on the hard days it's still a choice.

Speaker 2: 26:10

You know you can be down, have a pity party, have whatever you want, but you cannot stay there because you will be not in life, but you'll be of life like a movie passing you by and you certainly don't want that.

Speaker 2: 26:26

So I think it's a choice to feel your feelings, not just tuck it away, but, you know, make a choice Like I want to be happy and I want to be in life. I want to be with friends and my family and, you know, at occasions and weddings and this and that, and be as resilient as I can and as happy as I can with the time that I have. Life is, you know, a one-time thing to be grateful for and to be lived and try to live it joyfully, although we've all been dealt different cards and tough diagnoses and things like that that comes with tough times. But I think it's a choice and there's tools I know that we all use to enhance our resilience, whether it is prayer, whether it is counseling, whether it is journaling, and there's thank goodness, there's all types of tools out there for that to increase our resilience.

Speaker 1: 27:25

That's a really good point and I think, find the tool that works best for you and it might be different today than it is tomorrow Exactly.

Speaker 5: 27:33

That reminds me of a comedian who talked about how he saw his friend and his friend said I'm going to go buy some TNT, sees him a few weeks later and he has. So how's that TNT? And the friend said it didn't blow me away. So, lisa and Stasia, there are some elements of some of the things that you shared that I so relate to.

Speaker 5: 27:57

I do another way in which I'm very intentional is in good grief. I believe in and I experience the benefits of identifying, like you, stasia, identifying and understanding what is the emotion. Why am I feeling it and then processing it in a way that is, I'm caring for myself. And I look at grief in two ways. One, it's not the pain. Grieving isn't the pain. We grieve what is painful, what is lost, it's the grieving, that is the healthy processing of it. And then the other part of my view of grief is that it's a level, so to speak. If I'm going up a ladder of let's call it an emotional ladder to get to a point where I'm exercising the most greatest emotional maturity, then I'm getting to a healthier and healthier, better place, and this has been a significant issue for me as well.

Speaker 5: 28:48

This past winter, my baseline pain was about three or four times its normal and I grieved between late January and through to March.

Speaker 5: 28:57

I did some grieving just about every day and it was a healthy way to actually process it and to get to that point where I'm able to do two things, like you were saying, lisa. There's another way I put it is it's all part of my amazing life story and I really mean that, and sometimes I'll say and these are sort of affirmations and part of patterns of thought that I find helpful that my best days are ahead of me. The other aspect of this that I found fascinating and sometimes challenging to get to in the midst of pain is what psychologists call detachment. It's the highest level of emotional maturity. I don't particularly like that term because I believe in staying attached to what I'm thinking and feeling, or even attached to the people with me and what they're experiencing when they're seeing either me and my pain, or if I'm being a caregiver to them. So sometimes I'll refer to it as attached detachment and or graceful objectivity or objective grace, so that there remains a healthy, caregiving connection in the midst of it all.

Speaker 1: 30:28

I've listened to each of you. I'm trying to figure out what my answer is, and it's changed. It's changed after hearing what each of you have to say. We're talking about the emotion of resilience and how I've evolved. I've come a long way. Come a long way because I'm not even going to lie to you guys.

Speaker 1: 30:43

In 2012, I threw a pity party, and it seemed like every day I was in tears. I wallowed because to me, my life was over. I wasn't going to be doing the things that I envisioned doing with my family anymore At least, that's what I thought because you go down that rabbit hole of research, which is so dangerous, and so I guess this is my reminder to listeners be careful about what you research and make sure that it's reputable. But also I love that we can talk to other people living with the same things as us and get advice from them, because what you're reading might not line up with what life really is like. It might be a little better than you think. I can see where I've come a long ways, because now I'm not going to let life stop me. I'm going to do the dang thing. If I want to go play in the ocean, I'm going to go play in the ocean and jump in those waves, which I did, by the way, even with those swollen ankles, I was in the ocean, man, and they were some crazy waves while I were there too.

Speaker 1: 31:40

Anyway, but I actually pulled up some information about resilience and I wanted to read it to you. So it's a diagram and it talks about different ways of resilience, and it talks about optimism, self-belief, control of self, willingness to adapt, being flexible, solving problems, emotional awareness, social support and, of course, a sense of humor, and I feel like we all touched on every single one of those things. It's important. You can't leave out one thing. You need to have a little bit of it all. With that, remember that it's okay to sit and wallow once in a while, but the one piece of advice I always tell people set a time limit. The wallowing can't last forever. The wallowing can take over your life if you allow it to be so. Set that time limit. I know you're excited about this one. If you could share one mindset shift that transformed your mental health, what would it be?

Speaker 3: 32:33

I found my purpose and that changed everything. I mean, my life did a 180. I was no longer a diagnosis. I was no longer this person that everybody says, oh man, I'm so sorry, was no longer this person that everybody says, oh man, I'm so sorry, I hate hearing that, by the way. I found that I still can make a difference in this world, despite the pain that I'm in, despite the condition that I have. I'm putting that to work, you know. Hence the podcast, hence, you know, getting my story out there. I mean, I've done it.

Speaker 3: 33:05

All started with one interview in a small magazine in my hometown. I was really nervous to have it out there, but I made a connection of a lady that did a podcast. She invited me on her show and then it just kind of steamrolled from there. I don't do it for the attention as much as I do it just to bring recognition to the disease that when I got diagnosed you could Google it and you would find very, very little. There's so much more out there now and it's not because of me, but I have contributed to it. And when you find a purpose, well, let me say this If you don't have a purpose, life is meaningless. When you find your purpose and you start working towards that, it takes on a whole new meaning, and so that's my mindset shift.

Speaker 4: 33:49

So probably the most important mindset shift. I don't remember who said it, but I remember reading once if you would not allow a friend to speak to you that way, or you would not consider somebody who spoke to you like that as your friend, then why are you saying it to yourself? That flipped my entire relationship with myself when I realized the kind of abuse I was dishing out every day, every hour, and really committed to changing that because I absolutely was treating myself like I would never tolerate it. I have shown people the door for less.

Speaker 2: 34:30

You know guide, I can help, I can talk laboratory you know, you know, just I can give advice and hopefully one person, if I help one person that means so much to me, you know get on a better pathway than if they didn't talk to me, than if they didn't talk to me. Giving back has felt incredible to me.

Speaker 5: 35:08

What each of you have said and shared is. I echo it and I applaud what you're saying, steve. The one way I think of it is there's so much energy that comes from identifying your purpose and there's energy that comes from every single one of those conversations being a guest, being interviewed, podcast, what have you? Everything that we do towards fulfilling that purpose is a source of energy and actually this has been good, because listening to you all it's helped me get to this thought, because I wasn't sure how I was going to answer this. I would say create numerous things that will help spark those mind shifts in the moment, every day.

Speaker 5: 35:50

How many times do we need to create those shifts here? I'm needing to do it during this conversation, and I'm doing it and using different tools from my resilience toolkit. Sometimes it'll be a prayer, sometimes it'll be a breath, deep, deep, concentrated breath. Sometimes it'll be just having the chance to talk about having a sense of purpose. There are numerous times a day that I use, sometimes a dozen or more different things to create that shift in the moment. And I'll conclude this by saying what, how encouraging you are, jen, giving us the opportunity to have this conversation, to answer your questions, to share it. You do so much for us in these journeys that we're in.

Speaker 1: 36:35

Thank you. I wasn't sure where my answer was going to lead either, but after listening to you all, I thought of a couple of things. First, life is messy. I have to embrace that life is messy instead of trying to control everything. I can't control everything, which means I can't control my pain either. I can't control when life is going to be painful, inflaming, crazy. I just can't.

Speaker 1: 36:56

It reminded me of a woman I attended church with years ago. She was in her 90s when I first met her. She and her husband were in their 80s and they would deliver meals on wheels three days a week and she had rheumatoid arthritis and she had also had polio as a child. That had strongly affected her life and how she walked and it affected her swallowing and some other things. They would go on about a mile walk through their neighborhood and she's in her 80s.

Speaker 1: 37:26

I kept thinking, okay, if she can do this, I can do this when I grow up. I want to be a Barbara. So that's what I take with me now. You know, now that she's passed away, I just keep reminding myself. I want to be a Barbara. I want to be a shining light of hope to other people, even on a rough day. I want to be that person that's out there serving however I can and being there for other people. You know it's not always going to be perfect and sometimes it's going to be messy and sometimes I'm going to fail, but that's okay. So thank you all for helping me come up with my answer.

Speaker 5: 37:54

Yeah, that's such an important point, jen. There's no perfection in pain management, there's no perfection in resilience, but it's in the practicing of doing it over and over again, the best we can, that we've finally done, and this is what I repeat for myself, and I want to encourage everyone else that your best is greater than the pain.

Speaker 1: 38:16

I just appreciate all of you for being here. You all have brought such great advice to this conversation and it's hard to believe that this was episode two of all this, but I cannot wait to share with listeners. Well, thanks again, listeners, Until next time. Don't forget your spoon.