Embracing ADHD: From Harlem Globetrotter to Empowering Entrepreneur

Discover how former Harlem Globetrotters athletic trainer turned business coach, Michael Dickey, unravels his personal journey with ADHD—a revelation sparked by his son's experiences. Despite initial pushbacks from healthcare professionals, Michael sought a diagnosis that ultimately shed light on the struggles he faced throughout his career and life. His story is both enlightening and empowering as we uncover how recognizing and embracing ADHD can transform not just personal lives but also entrepreneurial paths, aligning them with inherent strengths and passions.

Join us as we explore the nuanced transition Michael experienced moving from the adrenaline-fueled world of athletic training to a more introspective role of coaching entrepreneurs with ADHD. We discuss the identity shifts faced by those stepping away from dynamic careers due to chronic illness or approaching retirement. Michael shares insights on how to turn these challenges into opportunities, advocating for the importance of self-awareness and leveraging strengths to guide the next generation of athletes and coaches.

In this enlightening episode, we dive into understanding one's unique problem-solving style and conquering executive dysfunction using the conative part of the mind. Learn from Michael about the four action modes that define problem-solving approaches and how to embrace your distinct style to boost productivity and avoid burnout. Tune in for practical strategies on organizing tasks by energy levels and finding balance through joy and extracurricular pursuits, ensuring a successful and fulfilling entrepreneurial journey.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Building Resilient ADHD Entrepreneurial Businesses
• 7:28 Athletic Training to Coaching ADHD Entrepreneurs
• 17:25 Discovering Your Problem-Solving Style
• 20:59 Overcoming Executive Dysfunction Through Strengths
• 26:46 Identifying Your Energy Levels and Tasks
• 36:29 Finding Joy and Balance in Entrepreneurship

Transcript

Andi: 0:08

Welcome back to my Spoonie Sisters podcast. Today's guest is Michael Dickey, a business coach who specializes in helping entrepreneurs with ADHD build thriving and fulfilling businesses. As a certified Colby consultant and a fellow ADHD entrepreneur, michael has a unique perspective on the challenges and opportunities that come with running a business while navigating a deep. Before becoming a coach, michael worked as an athletic trainer, including an incredible stint with the Harlem Globetrotters. How cool is that? Now he combines his deep understanding of performance, resilience and joy to help others build businesses that align with their strength and their passions. When he's not coaching, michael keeps busy training for strongman competitions, attending live music events and coaching his kids' flag football team. Let's dive in and learn more about Michael's insights and tips for entrepreneurs with ADHD.

Michael: 1:06

Welcome, Michael. Thank you, Jenny and Andy. I'm so excited to be here to chat with you.

Andi: 1:11

We're excited to have you here. I'm so excited to be here to chat with you. We're excited to have you here. Can you share a bit about your personal journey with ADHD and how it has influenced your career path?

Michael: 1:27

Yes, my journey really started with our eight-year-old son, alex, who we adopted when he was two. As he was getting older, in four and five or so, we noticed that he had some real significant impulsivity issues and inability to focus and sit still, and more than a normal four and five-year-old boy would. That can be kind of typical for that age, but it was more than that. His pre-K teacher was frustrated with him because he couldn't sit still in circle time or was having these outbursts and making noises. And the final straw was that we were going for a family walk around the block and this might have been during the pandemic, actually. So we were home, we're going for a walk, and we said, okay, we're going to cross the street to go out. And we were going that direction and he just started to cross without waiting for us. It was in the middle of the street, there wasn't a crossing there or anything, and so we said this is, you know, this is an issue, this is something we need to have addressed. And so we went to his pediatrician and she gave us the questionnaires and I was going through it my part of the questionnaire and I said, oh, I do that. And then, oh, I got in trouble for that when I was little, you know. And finally it was like, oh my gosh, I think I have ADHD. And it explained so much. And then I went to my primary care physician to talk about it and see what my options were and he said, yeah, it sounds like you have ADHD, but there's a but. And he said, but it's, the insurance isn't going to pay for it and it costs a lot. And it's this whole process you have to go through and you're almost 40. Like why you've gotten this far. You're probably just fine. And I said, well, I'm here because I have a problem and I want you to help me address it.

Michael: 2:55

And so that was really frustrating and, looking back, like I was a very good student overall. I think a lot of it was. I didn't want to disappoint my parents, who were teachers and I masked very well and my parents' friends were also my teachers and so very small town in rural Michigan, so everybody knew everybody. But I would have these things where we had messy desk checks and messy locker checks and I would always fill those and they gave us a planner to keep track of our homework. And I never did it and I was a student athletic trainer and I had assignments after school to work with different sports teams and I would just miss my assignments because I forgot to check the schedule.

Michael: 3:28

So a lot of these things are coming back to me now like, oh, this is an explanation. It's not an excuse, but it's an explanation. And so after all of this it's been, it took me about two years and I was, you know, consistently letting my wife down in our business that we were working together on at the time and I said I need to get this actually like checked. And so after that I got officially diagnosed and it was way easier now than it was a couple years ago and it's just made such a big difference in my life and just being there for my family and feeling that I'm not a failure, which is a lot of times. I think that when you have this, you keep letting people down because of something that you don't really have control of that you feel like you're a failure. That's where I'm at now, personally.

Andi: 4:10

Did you feel like it ended up being as difficult or as expensive as your doctor had led on to?

Michael: 4:16

absolutely not no, there, and there are so many options in that now that are online that you can go in, and it's either your insurance will pay for it or, if it's under 150 like just for that evaluation I mean to get that answer is, in my opinion, worth the money for me, and I had to pay out of pocket because my insurance doesn't cover it. But it's not a thousand, you know, thousands of dollars, and it was online. She was like yep, you got it. Okay, here's what we're going to do. It was just so easy, and so the red tape that I was expecting to have to go through and waited two years to avoid, like it was, it was not a big problem. How did your experience as an athletic trainer particularly?

Andi: 4:49

How did your experience as an athletic trainer, particularly your time with the Harlem Globetrotters, shape your perspective on performance and resilience?

Michael: 4:57

Well, this is all in hindsight, I think, right, because it's been probably about 15 years since I was with the Globetrotters and that's always my. You know, you play the three truths and a lie game and that's always my truth. Is that a former Harlem Globetrotter? Because nobody expects that. But you know, if I were not married I'd still be doing that to this day. But I was good at it. I loved it. I loved the guys Like they were my friends and I loved the spontaneity of the shows and I loved that I didn't have to like do administrative boring things. I was just in the moment all the time and treating injuries and I didn't have to like do administrative boring things. I was just in the moment all the time and treating injuries and I didn't have to make schedules and like I was doing exactly what my strengths were. And I think, looking back.

Michael: 5:42

But my wife and I wanted to start a family and she was starting her own business at the time and so that travel would not wasn't conducive to those things that we wanted to do for our goals and our dreams, and so I left that to help her with her business and be a stay-at-home dad, because at that time we had our daughter Carmen, and that was an extreme wake-up call because all of a sudden I was in charge of my own schedule, which I'm not great at, and I had to do all these tedious behind-the-scenes computer things rather than being out and urgently helping somebody and those type of things and I kept dropping the ball and not following through and all these things. But I would like I could touch stinky, sweaty athletes with blood and broken bones all day long and I love doing that. So it was. There's this dichotomy of like I really like doing these things that I think for a lot of people would be like, oh gross, you know that that doesn't sound fun at all. And I'm doing these things, which a lot of people like I would love to be able to do that all day long. So there's these two different things that I was thrust into and if it was just looking back, I could see that I had my dream job and then left something that was really within my purpose.

Michael: 6:47

I would love to work with my wife and be a stay at home dad, but it didn't line up with what I was given, with my natural strengths and what I knew how to do, and it made me realize that a lot of performance is based on our mental energy capacity and that to do things and be resilient when it comes to doing your job, you have to honor that mental energy. And if you can't honor your mental energy and you're constantly drained doing the things you're supposed to be doing, then that's where you know. If you're sitting in a job, that's where you probably leave within six months. And there are other. You know, after being trained in things and coaching people for a long time, that there are strategies that we can use to make those tasks that don't seem quite within alignment with our strengths actually do and get done.

Jen: 7:29

I love everything about this conversation. Right now I just I'm over here fangirling, but it is because we are so similar. I want to pick your brain about the athletic trainer and the feeling of failure, because I struggled there. Right, I'm an athletic trainer and I struggle there with the not even it's not the follow-through. I think that I live off of adrenaline because that doesn't feel like work to me. But when I have to sit down and maybe do something else, that feels more work. Ish, and it's not even for me the administrative portion, because I eat that up. I love that. The process, I can see it. You tell me your big picture. I can give you all the small steps. My brain works like that. But if you ask me to do something else, that isn't in one of those two things, I take the biggest side.

Jen: 8:16

So, post my chronic illness going rogue. When I had to come off the court, I didn't know how to function from behind the desk. I didn't, and I realized that me, my strength is that I lead with my hands right, like I can be with you, and literally the lead by example. That is my leadership style. I'm gonna find your strong suit and then you lead. You made that your own because you use your talents. But I realized that when I had to come off the court, when Jesus decided to sit me down for 38 minutes, when I had to come off the court and try to figure that out again, I didn't know how to exist as a coach with a different framework that wasn't my hands.

Michael: 9:01

Yeah, I felt the same way when I finally said, you know, I have to retire, like I'm literally retiring my license, and if I ever want to do that again, I have to go, literally go back to school, take the certification exam again, like do all the things, and that's not. You know, that's not possible anymore. And and it's there's a real struggle with, like your identity, right Cause if you like, I was an athletic trainer. I have been doing that since high school. That's what I knew and love for my whole life. And then all of a sudden that's gone. And if you're an athlete or that's, that's your identity.

Michael: 9:31

And then all of a sudden you have to make this huge change that is, I'm not going to be that person anymore. It's, I mean, it sucks, it's hard, and you have to find another avenue that supports those strengths. So you might not be I'm not taping ankles, I'm not doing those things anymore but what I think my strengths are is that I find new and innovative ways to help people be more efficient and get the biggest bang for their buck. And so if I, if I, looking back, like that's the essence of what I did as an athletic trainer, and now that's the essence of what I do as a coach and so and everything else in between is well, I got to learn how to do that. I got to learn how to be a coach. I got to learn the business of being in business, yeah, but, but I still have the passion to help people and that's how I naturally do that. So I don't know if that resonates.

Jen: 10:23

It does, because for me I was. I was learning how to again coach from a different angle, or how to teach without my hands, or how to teach without my hands, and so, although I'm not out there carrying you off of the field or off of the track or off of a court, I am now teaching in a way that I'm teaching you how to prevent it. You're doing more prehab and you're understanding your body and performance and how it functions and the why. And they get it from a different angle now, because I'm chronically ill and I live in a body that's always in pain, and so, as mad as I was about that body that's always in pain, and so, as mad as I was about that, I had to come off the court. For the time I had to come off the court, it allowed me to develop a framework for me that made these younger athletes understand how their bodies work and ask more questions, and I could teach the skill and you could tape yourself and you could understand what the tape is doing and why it's there, for it's not there just because it's cute. It actually serves a function. And so now I listen to my young athletes, each one teach one. They're our future, and so, although I had to come from behind the you know the I got it and have the gurney and where's my bag? Although I don't do that anymore, I now have the next generations of kids that will be coaches, youth coaches or or they're like here.

Jen: 11:35

I learned this. This is why she wasn't lying. I tell them fact check me. I'm not in the shoes with you. I'm going to tell you this because I know. But fact check me and know for yourself, because what I tell you, what your body will do, it's going to feel different. And I'm not going to tell you your body can do something that I'm physically not in your body. So your body may not be able to do that, and I hate when people tell me but you should, you should be able to do it. My body's a storm, I should be able to do a lot of things, but I can't.

Jen: 12:05

And so that was the other thing. It was me owning the days and the instances in my life where I knew I actually can't. That was where I struggled, hearing myself say I can't do this, but now I go, I can't do that, then I'm okay with it. Oh, I can't do this. This will probably make me flare that I'm gonna have to find a different way. Maybe I should delegate this my can is my can't for different reasons other than failure. Now it's just I can't. I can't cause I don't have the capacity, I can't. I don't have the desire, I can't because it doesn't align with me. I just use it in a different way now.

Michael: 13:06

I love that. It's a great perspective and it doesn't mean that you and for a lot of people, when you're doing things that you literally can't do, or you're having trouble because it's the opposite of how you naturally do things, it's not because you're dumb the opposite of how you naturally do things. It's not because you're dumb, it's not because you have anything besides, just a capacity issue, really, whether it's mental or emotional or physical that we have these capacities and it's okay. It doesn't mean you're broken. It means that you need some help.

Jen: 13:36

And it's okay to ask.

Michael: 13:54

Exactly so, michael, what inspired your transition from athletic training to coaching entrepreneurs, specifically with ADHD? It was just her and a part-time assistant at that time when I started helping her. And now we have like a team of 12 people and we have a lot of amazing work that she's been spearheading. But I, you know, leaning into.

Michael: 14:11

I kept being put in a place like, okay, you can do administrative stuff, okay, and then after a couple of weeks, like this is horrible, I can't do this. I got to be helping people, you know, like real time helping people, and then we start coaching people and training people to become coaches. And so then it was like, okay, well, I think that my spirit and my heart is just that I'm a teacher and a coach, like that's what I have to be doing. And so I just started to lean into that more and more and more, and I will talk about this in a little bit, I think. But I learned about the Colby assessment and got certified in as a Colby consultant and that's where I was like this is exactly what I need to be doing to help people.

Michael: 14:47

And as I was helping more of our clients that we were training and coaching the ones that had ADHD and this is before I was diagnosed or knew that I had it were like this is so helpful because I now know why I'm avoiding doing some of these things, and I know that I'm avoiding it because it's the energy is not aligned. The energy needed is not aligned with what I have to give, and so I think once I got diagnosed, it was just an obvious like well, obviously I'm not just going to help all business owners and small business owners. I have that with my people, and my people are, you know, because entrepreneurs with ADHD, because I learned the hard way how to do some of these things in my own way and then it just was a natural progression to help, like I went through this. So I need to help the people that are struggling like I did.

Jen: 15:29

So you mentioned the Coley framework. Can you explain how it works for those who are maybe unfamiliar? The framework is amazing. Guys, just buckle up, you're in for a treat. Can you explain the framework to people who may be?

Michael: 15:45

unfamiliar. Yeah, I love it and I'm probably going to nerd out way too much on it, but it's.

Michael: 15:48

I'll nerd out with you, yeah, awesome. So Kathy Colby, a quick little background. Kathy Colby is the originator of this Colby theory and if you've ever heard of the Wunderlicht assessment I don't know if anybody's heard of that before, but it's an iq test. The nfl used it for a long time as their like nfl iq test lots of executive c-suites, fortune 500 companies to use it for hiring. Her dad invented that assessment, so she grew up with assessments, but it's all about like intelligence, basically like an iq, and she always thought there was more to a person than just your intelligence. She could never really figure out why, and she was working with gifted and talented children and she would do the after-school programs for them where she would say here's the experiment that we're going to be doing today, here's your lesson, go ahead. And we know that these gifted and talented children are really smart. But she saw that each of them problem solved differently to get to the same answer at the end. So if it's about smarts and intelligence, they would all do it the same way, right? But that's not the case, and so it's been about 40, 50 years since she's kind of established this and what we know and this goes back to kind of Aristotle and Plato is that there are three different parts of the mind. There's the cognitive part, which is what you know about things, and it's your intelligence, it's your experience, it's your education. We can assess it with, like, what do you know? What course have you taken? If you've ever taken a course or workshop and they give you that pre-test, you're like, oh man, I got a 25%. And then you take the course and you take that same test, get 100%. Well, your cognitive ability around that got better, right. So that's not what we're talking about when we're talking about COLE.

Michael: 17:25

The second part of the mind is the affective and this is personality and this is your emotions, your motivation, your values, those type of things. And so we can assess that with a Myers-Briggs or an Enneagram or any of those personality assessments. But if you think about that, what motivates you now and what your values are now compared to when you were, say, 16 in high school, probably quite a bit of a different person, right. So we know that that can and does change over time, and so that's not what we're talking about either. But what we're talking about with Colby is it's the conative part of your mind which is maybe not a word.

Michael: 17:56

You maybe not have heard it before, but it's conative and it's how you problem solve. And if I say, andy, here's a problem, you can do it however you want, go. And I say, jenny, here's a problem, go. You might problem solve completely differently in how to get there and differently than I do. And it's really a description of how you problem solve and it's your mental energy capacity when you're doing something. So if you've ever done something and you sat down and you're like I have to do this for three hours and I'm 20 minutes in and I am fried, so you have a shot glass size cup for that.

Michael: 18:27

But there's other things that you're doing. Maybe it's planning, it's the process or it could be lots of other things that it's. That's super energizing. I have a big size cup to fill every day for that, and so we look at those, and the interesting thing is about all of these are is that it's it's not genetic. There's no correlation between your parents' results and how you problem solve. It's not biased for race or gender or sex or age or anything, and so it's. I see it as like how amazingly talented every single person in the entire world is because we all have these amazing strengths that we all can tap into. Higher world is because we all have these amazing strengths that we all can tap into, and it's ridiculous to think that you can't do some job simply because you are not the right gender or sex or race or age. It's this equalizer that we all have, that we are all equally great problem solvers, and these are all strengths. And so, really quickly, last thing I'll say about this before I go too far, is that when it comes to how you problem solve and maybe this will resonate with a lot of you is that we use four different action modes to problem solve.

Michael: 19:27

The first one's called fact finder and that just describes how you gather and share information and when you take the assessment. Maybe some of you have taken the assessment. The assessment it goes from one to 10. 10 is not amazing. One is not failure. One is just as much of a strength as 10. It just describes how much you use that when you're problem solving. So if you're a 10 in FactFinder, you have to gather a lot of information before you can make a decision or problem solve. To move on, If you're a one or two or three, just give me the bullet points. That's all I need. I don't need all the details.

Michael: 19:56

The next one is called follow through and that describes how you plan and organize. Are you a big time planner? Do you follow step-by-step procedures or are you like me and you do things randomly? And you can? Only you know you have to spin five plates at the same time. Quick start is the next one that describes how you deal with risk and uncertainty. Are you, do you take lots of risks? Do you improvise a lot or do you want to follow the protocol? Do you want to know exactly the right way to do things?

Michael: 20:18

And the last one is called implementor, which describes how you use tools or implements, using your hands to solve problems all day. So are you someone that's like a carpenter or electrician or a surgeon and you're using your hands all day? Or do you solve more abstract problems and so you're in administration or internal medicine rather than being a surgeon? So we all sit on these and the most important thing is they don't change over time. So I can't say Andy, Jenny, you need to get more follow through, you need to have less quick start. It doesn't work that way. So we have to be obstinate about that and say like this is how I do things. I'm not going to do things anybody else's way and I have to find sometimes I just have to find ways that I can do it my own way and still be successful. So that's the 10 cent tour of Goldie.

Andi: 20:59

Wow, you talk about helping clients lean into their strengths. Can you share an example of how you've helped someone do this successfully?

Michael: 21:07

Yeah. So I just had a client last week thinking about this, and she is just a true entrepreneur. She's very much jump it fee first, you know, I'm just, I'm just going to figure it out but also she needs data to back that up. So she's a quick start and a fact finder at the same time, and one of those strengths is that she naturally prioritizes Like if and when, but also, because of her executive dysfunction, struggles with the overwhelm of prioritizing, and so it's one of those things where I have to have priorities to work. I have to know what's the most important thing for me to be working on, and so you may have maybe heard the saying of if nothing's a priority, then everything's a priority, and then you get overwhelmed because I have all of these things all around me at the same time that need my attention. I don't know what I need to work on.

Michael: 21:51

So we started with and let me go back really quickly that was like she just had inaction because she didn't know what to work on, and so she was just kind of stuck in her business, and so we started by setting goals Like what are your goals that you want to do, that you want to work on that are exciting to you and that are in line with, kind of the vision that you have for your future, of where you want to be in three years.

Michael: 22:10

And then how can we break those down to like little baby steps? Because if I say I'm going to make $100,000 in my business, if I do that, like, what are the steps for me to get there? That's a big, overwhelming goal. But then if we sit down and talk it out, what's the next thing that has to happen? What are all of the things that have to happen? And then let's get them in order. Let's just talk it out and so giving her permission to set those goals and then prioritize based on what's exciting to her and important to her, and then say, hey, this is the next step, let's set some due dates to that. Okay, then this is the next due date and it gives that kind of a plan also along with prioritizing. So in her strength was that she needed those things, but her executive dysfunction was not allowing her to do that for her.

Andi: 22:51

I think that's a great example, and I think many of us were the idea person. We have 20 ideas of the things we want to do someday or now or whatever it is I know for me I think I've told Andy this before I have this notepad that tells me a list for different things, like what has to be done today, what needs to be done this week, what needs to be done this month, and I love it because it helps me stay extremely organized and I live by that because otherwise I'm going to have 20 ideas and I'm going to be all over the place.

Michael: 23:21

Absolutely. And that's where that shiny object syndrome can kind of get in, because if you're not focused and you know that I have to get this done, it's important. Might not be super fun, but now that I know, like, okay, I have to give myself permission to not seek those outside things, because I know this is in alignment with what my goals are, my dreams are and what's important to me.

Jen: 23:39

Exactly that was me. That was me. Last week I had to do a pitch deck for something that was not athletic Right and so, but last night I was doing the camp kits, the kits that they get, so their gear and uniforms and all the things, the interest meeting but building that presentation. I was so hyped and then I had to do the stuff you want and I was like I also do this, guys, and I'm super good at it, but I also do this. But I was like pulling teeth. It took me all weekend to muster the energy to sit down and do the task. That literally took me 30 minutes. I dreaded it all day. It took me 30 minutes. I dreaded it all day. It took me 30 minutes. I just wasn't fired up about it. It was a necessary evil, I guess, you know, for business growth, but I wasn't fired up about it.

Michael: 25:01

And when you after the fact, you're probably like that was just 30 minutes, I can do it. You know 30 minutes. It was nothing but that leading up to it, just the dread of that energy. It might as well have been a full day worth of dread.

Andi: 25:16

I second that, andy. I think a lot of times there are things that we just really don't want to do. Maybe we don't like to do it, maybe we don't feel like it's our skill set and maybe it needs to be done this week, but I'd really rather put it on the list of by the end of the month and, like you said, 30 minutes and really it wasn't that bad. But sometimes it's really nice to have someone to bring us back down to earth and say okay, maybe try this, this and this, and it's only going to take you 30 minutes, you're going to get through it.

Jen: 25:44

I think it's super good because Jen's my checks and balances, so I'll send an audio message. I've got to do this thing and she'll go. I know you don't want to, but maybe, if you just do it 10 minutes at a time, maybe just do one slide and although it's not what you want to hear, it's what you need to hear. And she was right. She was like give me three reasons why you can't do one slide right now. Okay, but I do that to my friends too. For instance, give me three reasons why we can't do it right now because in the time that you're telling me you could have actually been done. So give me the three reasons and I talk myself down. But sometimes you can't always talk yourself down. So, having other people who understand how your brain works, that understand the language that registers with you when you're being communicated with you want to be communicated with and not talked at, so that you can bring your strengths strengths out, so you can do the task, even the tedious ones, even the ones we don't quite enjoy.

Michael: 26:35

Absolutely. What kind of advice would you give to Spoonies that are navigating? Is kind of what we talked about a little bit, but is identifying like literally identifying those things that you do, whether it's home or it's at work, that put you into that flow state that's why my business is called Flow State Executive Coaching. What are those things that you do that are fun and exciting and you enjoy doing them? They actually raise your energy levels. They're super energizing. Those things that you do that are fun and exciting and you enjoy doing them. They actually like raise your energy levels, they're super energizing.

Michael: 27:14

And then figure out what are those kryptonite kind of tasks that still need to get done. They're draining. You dread doing them. They're just awful, and 30 minutes of them feels like a full day. And so what can we do? How can we get those done? And so you need to honor that mental energy as much as possible, as well as your physical and emotional energy too. And so here's a really easy exercise that you can do, and I'm sure that most of your listeners have done something similar.

Michael: 27:40

But if you take a piece of paper and you make three columns, and one column says draining and hate, the middle column says okay, neutral. And the third column says love slash, energizing. And you just start to think about everything that you do throughout the day oh, I love doing that. Oh, my gosh, I hate, I hate that. That is, I can't even start that. I hate it so much. Oh, that's okay. Like, do I love it, no, but do I hate it no. And and so you could actually you come up with a list of the love energizing. That is my zone of genius, that's my flow state. You know, whatever you want to call it, this is what I need to lean into. The okay neutral is I can probably keep doing those until they I can't anymore. Basically, would I love to give that to someone else, probably, but maybe I still do that because it's not horrible yet.

Michael: 28:23

But then the stuff that I hate and it's draining. You immediately have to come up with some way that it can still get done, and there's really only five. But the hard part about that is that means I might have to hire someone, which is overwhelming in its own right and cost money. You can delete it or pause it. You can say well, should I really be doing this right now? What's the ROI of me actually doing this right now. There's probably other things that are way more important and give me back more.

Michael: 28:50

Right now we can build habits. How can I build a habit in the morning to get something done that doesn't take? You know, a habit is just like brushing your teeth, right? You just naturally do that and you know you have to do it, and it's not a big deal. You can automate it somehow. And so if you're like one good example is if you send an email and it's the same email over and over and you're writing the same email over and over, you can make a template and copy and paste it, or use a CRM to automate things, so you're not manually sending things over and over again. And then the last one and I think it's the most important is how can you do that your own way? Because sometimes, as a business owner, you just have to do it. There's nobody else that can do it except for you. And so for Andy's example of I was working on this for 30 minutes, but it felt like it was going to be eight hours.

Michael: 29:35

That's when maybe you've heard of the Pomodoro technique. That's when something like the Pomodoro works really well is that I just have to get through this and it's going to take me forever. Well, you work for 20 minutes, take a five to 10 minute break. You keep repeating that and it actually keeps you more energized. Now, some people would say about the Pomodoro method is why I don't like that because it interrupts me. Well, it's not for when you're like in the zone and you want to get hyper focused, it's for when you need to break that up because it's so draining and not energizing that you want to break it up to kind of re-energize a little bit. And then I also think one thing to think about is how you organize your day in your week and really organizing your specific days by the energy level that it takes to do those things. And so you might and these are words that I use and they're a little bit confusing but a flow day Like that is when I'm working on things that are putting me in my flow state.

Michael: 30:26

These are the things that I love to do, these are the things that make me my money, these are my revenue generating things. This is what I'm me personally, working with my clients. You want to do those. Say it's Wednesday, thursday, friday, and then there's a grow day, which is those are the things I'm spent growing my business.

Michael: 30:40

So it's administrative things, it's networking, it's when I'm doing my CEO stuff, it's when I'm doing my finances, and what's the worst thing that can happen is that you do an administrative task that's super boring or you do whatever activity that's super boring, and then you have to go into that meeting with a client that has to be super uplifting and energizing. Those two energies don't match. So if you can start to plan your week in accordance to those energies as much as possible, you're going to have the energy will match. You're not going to be having this roller coaster. And the last day is that I call it a glow day, which is that personal time that you do use to re-energize and kind of bring joy into your life. That's when you get your best thinking done.

Andi: 31:17

I'm kind of geeking out on all this over here. You've got me Googling while I'm listening to you.

Jen: 31:22

So it's funny that you would bring up the Pomodoro, right? Because that's what I did when I did the 30-minute presentation. I was like, okay, I'm going to give it 30 minutes and if at 30 minutes today and I'll just keep doing it, but that was the technique that I use, I'm going to do it until my attention goes somewhere else. And the minute my attention diverts means I'm not supposed to be working on it right now, because am I giving it everything that I need to give it, all of the attention, all of the focus, the care, the nurture, all of the stuff before I send this out? Can I say that I did that? So no, I set my good old timer and it was tick, tick, tick, tick, ticking away and I'm like, and who would have thought? 30 minutes later I was done and I set the 30 minute timer and I was gonna take my break at 15 minutes. I do 15 and 5, so 15 minutes on five minutes, something fat fun. I'll dance, I'll sing, I watch, whatever. And then 15 minutes back, just want to get the blood flowing to, to break up the monotony in my mind. It's the whole party, maybe get some creative juices going. But when I afterwards I then said to myself again it was 30 minutes.

Jen: 32:26

It was whether or not I had the emotional capacity to use my energy to do that for 30 minutes, because my reality was I had already been on socials for more than 30 minutes. I had already tinkered around the house doing nothing for more than 30 minutes, looking at the computer for me to do that presentation, and had every other reason of nothing to not do it. I just didn't have the mental capacity to do it. I learned over the years to give myself grace.

Jen: 32:55

When I was an athlete I didn't understand the. My mental capacity is exhausted and I will push through things. And when I was the student I would do that too. And then, as the young coach, to prove a point, it was I'm going to push through it. And then, you know, I tried to push through it and I got sat down and I realized that it's okay to just not have the mental capacity. And the people that hear it how they receive what you say, not your business. Once you say it, you know, respectfully, I don't have the capacity. A no is a no. I can't is I can't, that's it. I don't have the capacity. Now, how they receive that, again, not your problem, but I struggle with disappointment in how they may receive my no or I'm not going to do that. It's real.

Michael: 33:37

It is, it really is, and that's the hard part, that is. I mean, setting boundaries right that's really what that comes down to and holding yourself to those boundaries. But you're setting them, not in a selfish way, but you're setting them for yourself, to be successful and honor yourself. And for one, on one side, it's like I'm doing this because this is what I need to be successful. But also, on the other side, I don't want people to see me as a pushover either. You know, I think there's there's there's lots to that about setting boundaries, and that is honestly a hard thing and I I struggle with that as well of like saying no, and the rejection, sensitivity to hearing no also is real, it's, it's. It's not an easy thing, but it's. And I think Andy, you said something earlier that but what would? How would I coach myself if I was my own client? That can kind of be. What would I tell somebody else if I came to me with a bra? And then it's like oh yeah, I'm right. You know, I knew that the whole time.

Jen: 34:31

Yeah, and to make it even worse, I force myself to go stand in the mirror when I'm talking to me. What would you tell your client? Ok, seriously, it's 30 minutes. Break it up into chunks, it could be 10 minute intervals, whatever, but you can do it. It's not that you can't, it's that you don't want to. Why don't you want to?

Jen: 34:47

This particular thing is boring to you, ok, but it's going to be equally as boring when you sit down to do it, whenever you decide to do it. And now you'll be rushing to do it and most likely frustrated because now you're rushing to do it. But I literally people think that I'm crazy. I will have a whole conversation with myself in the mirror. I'm going to look myself in the eyes and give myself that excuse out loud, because I spent a lot of time where I wouldn't look myself in the face. If the no was the no, I would be like oh okay, you didn't think it was good enough, or maybe you're right, maybe I need to do it your way. No, now, my no means my way is not necessarily wrong. It may not be how you got to it, but my solution is still a solution and is a mighty iconic one. You can, you know, roll the dice if you want to or not, and I'm not going to tell you to do it my way, but I'm gonna help you find a way to do it your own.

Jen: 35:34

And so when I talk to my friends, jenny included, hey, I got an idea, let's brainstorm, find a way for you to do it and make it your own in a way that's comfortable for you and where you may feel weak. It may be my strong suit and I have time, and it may be my zone of genius, and it is. So. All of it had by chance, all of the things that Jenny dreads doing it's my zone of genius and all of the cute, designsy things that I hate doing the graphics and the showing up on the social media spaces, and all the things that is her zone of genius. So we balance. So, which is my next segue. So we're talking a little bit about balance, right? So, between coaching and training for your strongmans and coaching flag football, all these hats that Michael Dickey wears, what's Michael Dickey's?

Michael: 36:21

secret to balance? That's a great question and I'll say I'm not there quite yet. You know, I'm not all the way there yet. I don't know if anybody really is Personally like what.

Michael: 36:29

The first thing that I think I really had to do was just use my calendar and live and die by it, and it's not natural to me to be so scheduled, but it's just a habit that you have to build. And again, talking about habits, and it's one of those things where my wife would say, hey, would you do this? I'm like sure, I'll totally remember to do that, I'll totally, you know, and I never did so. It's like okay, what do I have to do? Well, the moment that I know I have to do something got to put it in my calendar, got to put it in my task app, just got to do it and you build that habit. And then when you get out of that habit, you're like, oh my gosh, it was so much better when I was in this habit. What am I doing? And so it's building those habits and using the resources that you do have and technology does make those things a lot easier, the technical side of these type of things. But I also make sure that, like we were saying, andy, that I give myself breaks, whether it's five to 10 minutes, and especially when I'm drained, and to some people that might actually be kind of counterintuitive. Well, I'm working on this. If I take a break, isn't that just going to slow me down and slow the whole process down? But if you're working, taking little baby bites out, and then you do something to re-energize rather than I'm just going to plow through this and get it done, the quality of the output that you have is going to be higher because you're actually at least maintaining that energy level, not just constantly.

Michael: 37:44

You know, you're not like if you ever crammed in high school or college by the end of the night you're like I'm not going to remember any of this. Why did I stay up to four in the morning? It's the same kind of thing. It's not going to be as good. So just using that time to re-energize. But for me the when the Correct, that's okay. Sorry For me, these extracurricular and these hobby things are like.

Michael: 38:04

I actually do them because they re-energize me and I think those are fun. And so if I'm not getting like that, I'm not filling my cups by work, then work, then I do things that do fill up my cup outside of work and honor that mental energy outside of work and working with like, especially with like football. Like is it are seven and eight year old football players. Are they like amazing and are we there to win championships? No, but I like my purpose in life and one of them is to like uplift children and helping you have those positive wins and build those poor memories. Like the globetrotters. Like that was so fun to see those kids just having the time of their life with their moms and dads. Because they went with their moms and dads when they were little and like that's always kind of been a commonality of me of. That brings me joy too, and so it's balancing that energy by doing the things that are fun to you and making the time.

Andi: 38:53

It sounds like people being around people is what bringing joy yeah, I think so.

Michael: 38:57

Yeah, just, I never thought about that way, but yeah, it just blew my mind a little bit, jenny, but yeah, I think I think it's just the being with people and watching people enjoy themselves and being and helping them like have that in their lives, so maybe they they don't do it for themselves is is super enjoyable for sure, so people are your purpose.

Jen: 39:18

Oh yeah, I think, so love that he likes it when he talks about people.

Jen: 39:22

You do so where there is balance, there is often a lot of joy and you light up when you talk about how you keep balance. People is your, that is your purpose driven. I put my feet on the ground and I this is what I want to do, this is what I woke up to do, and it just radiates from you. It just radiates from you. So when you're working with your clients because you are you're, you're oozing joy and you're you're saying I'm fired up to work with you that is the energy that you bring into the space. I'm assuming it's the energy that you brought into this conversation. But how do you help your clients incorporate more joy into their lives and into their process so that they have less stuck points and more sore areas in their journey than they have? The? This is never going to get better, or maybe I just can't do this. How do you help them find the joy?

Michael: 40:16

Yeah, it's a good question, or maybe I just can't do this. How do you help them find the joy? Yeah, it's a good question there's, I mean, as far as it being just a part of a process, like I don't think to most ADHD people and entrepreneurs that processes are very fun and enjoyable. So that's why we don't do those things, we avoid those like, but being able to help them through that process and just make it fun and make it as enjoyable as possible and I'm not a formal guy, Like I'm not. I would rather I don't want to. You know, I want to be friends with everybody, which is not always a great thing, but like that's that's who I want to be. Like I want to be your friend, holding your hand through this. I don't want to be some stuffy consultant that is telling you what to do, but we're going to do it together and might as well have some fun doing it. So that's how, like, through the process, that's how I help them. But also it's important that they make time to incorporate joy into their lives.

Michael: 41:07

And what is it that they are not doing? You know, I had a client that he was like I just want to have, I don't want to have to work till 10 o'clock at night, want to have I don't want to have to work till 10 o'clock at night and because I want to hang out with my sons more and I want to coach their soccer team and so helping them realize that that is the direction they want to go. But here is where that block is, here's where that is Be like let's. But if we, if we work towards that, that's that's, that's your heaven, right? That's where you, that's your ideal dream of where you want to be, is making sure that they are leaning towards joy and that the direction is always in joy.

Michael: 41:37

And then also, let's talk about when you are in that zone where it's just draining. How can you, what are those things that bring you joy? Is it putting out some music and dancing? Is it just calling a friend and chatting for 10 minutes? Is it, you know, watch, listening to a quick standup comedy routine or something like that? What is it that brings you joy that you can incorporate into your life easily and to uplift you and re-energize you?

Andi: 41:58

How can listeners connect with you and learn more about your coaching services? What is the best way for them to reach out to you?

Michael: 42:04

You can go to my website, flowstateexecutivecoachingcom longest website ever, sorry and my Instagram is at flowstateexecutivecoaching, and so you can go there and contact me there, check out all the tips and tutorials I have on my Instagram, and then I'll say that if anybody is interested in and I have a free workshop that I do every year in the first Thursday and Friday of December and it's all about goal setting so I help them through my ADHD-friendly goal setting system that I use and two-day events.

Michael: 42:37

That's virtual, and so if you've ever had trouble, even if you don't have ADHD, I would rather have you be there and use this than be a client. I just want people to take these tools home, but I'm going to hold your hand through it. You just fill in the blanks, I'm going to coach you through it and give you feedback and then you have your goal set for next year and then you know exactly where you need to go. So that is on my website as well, but I'd love for anybody and everybody to join you. Thank you, it's been a pleasure and so much fun chatting with you both.

Andi: 43:04

Thank you, michael. Until next time, don't forget your spoof.